Setting Boundaries in the Workplace

Jennifer (host) 

Welcome back. We are continuing our discussion on DBT and communication, focusing on how these techniques can help professionals to improve difficult work relationships. Whether it’s addressing conflict or setting boundaries, DBT Skills offers tools to navigate challenging dynamics in the workplace.

And to help us explore this topic, I’m thrilled to welcome back Dr. Kimberly Applewhite. Hello. And for those of you who haven’t been here with Dr. Applewhite before, she is a licensed clinical psychologist and DBT program director at the Utah Center for Evidence-Based Treatment. She earned her degrees from New York University, and she completed extensive post-doctoral training at Harvard Medical School and the Huntsman Mental Health Institute in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Dr. Applewhite brings a wealth of expertise working with individuals from diverse backgrounds, including ethnic minorities and LGBTQ+ populations, and she also has expertise in trauma-informed care and suicide prevention. So welcome back, and let’s get started. All right.

So how can professionals use DBT techniques to set boundaries effectively at work?

Dr. Kimberly Applewhite

 Yeah, that’s a great question. I think boundaries are really tricky because in this day and age, we are sometimes encouraged to set boundaries without being super mindful about what we want out of an interaction or whether the relationship is worth saving. Sometimes we set boundaries because we feel uncomfortable or because a limit has been crossed, but then we don’t want to give people other chances.

And sometimes we inadvertently cause ourselves suffering when we are not taking the time to be wise with ourselves, to really search ourselves and figure out what it is that we want or why a certain situation brought up the feelings that it did. And so I think an essential part of setting boundaries is just connecting to that part of you that is wise.

So in DBT we call that wise mind. You might have another name for it. But just, like, beyond the emotion of a situation, bringing in some logic, what is needed. When we talk about the idea of wise mind, Marsha Linehan, the creator of DBT, talks about how sometimes emotion mind can feel like wise mind, and emotion mind is that part of us that’s, like, passionate and, like, uh, very emotion-ruled, emotion-focused, like a heart on your sleeve type of person.

And sometimes when we feel wronged, we can have that emotion-minded sense of urgency, like something needs to happen now. You know, there’s so many situations in the world that, uh, feel unfair, unjust, that bring up really strong emotions, and that passion is great. Um, it is not always great at work, or it’s not always great to lead with that full passion, um, when you’re trying to solve a problem.

And I think that that is part of where boundary setting arose, because it’s kind of a logic-minded response to avoid- Getting into a lot of deep emotion. And so connecting to wise mind really allows us to bring both aspects in, um, and say like what logically makes sense, what emotionally am I experiencing that tells me all these things about the environment, about what needs to be done, and can I find a synthesis with those two things?

In that, there might be things that you need to radically accept about a situation. So and radical acceptance does not change situations, but sometimes it can change how I feel about the situation. And if there is something that, like, is really, really heavy on my mind or my heart because of the emotionality of it, sometimes radical acceptance can turn the volume down on some of that strong emotion and then allow me to do what I want to do.

But then, like, if you’ve done all that and you determine that, you still need to set a boundary with someone, sometimes it’s helpful to troubleshoot your interpersonal strategy. So check if you have the skills you need to make the request. Did you listen to the podcast on dear man before you set the boundary?

Do you know how to, to ask for what you want? Do you know what you want? So sometimes when you set a boundary, you do not know what you want. It seems weird, but, like, I mean, think about it, whether it, it happens more often than you think. So really, do you know what you want, what you really, really want, as some wise women once said.

Uh, do you know, like, where your priorities are leading you? ‘Cause maybe you’re setting a boundary about something that is, like, not really important. Or maybe, like, the example or situation that arose is, , not the best time to set that particular boundary, but maybe in another, like, when some time has passed it might be a better time to bring it up based on what your priority’s on.

Do you know how to ask? Sometimes when you feel like you don’t deserve good things, especially at work, like say you’re trying to ask for a raise and you’re like, “Oh, I don’t know, but we’re in a recession,” and like, “They didn’t give this person a raise, and they definitely work harder than me, so I don’t know why I would get it.”

Listen, check the facts on some of this stuff. Now, don’t let fear or shame get in the way of you getting what you want, ’cause I don’t know, like you don’t know all the situations with this person or that person. Like, maybe it’s your time. I don’t know. But like, sometimes fear or shame gets in the way or how we think about fairness.

That’s another place where you can evaluate your priorities and be like, “Well, am I willing to wait for this thing, or is it time to like set the boundary, have this conversation?” And then oftentimes we have things that are in our vision right now, and it can stop us from thinking about long-term what’s effective.

So at work, if you know that you’re trying to grow in a company, and I don’t know, like there’s certain paths to an upward track that makes sense to follow, then it might make sense to follow those things on the long term rather than getting caught up in now this thing is unfair. However, if you… If there’s something that like really hits at your values, if there’s something that’s really gonna block your progress from going, if it’s gonna get in the way of other long-term objectives, then that might be a sign that it’s, it’s good to go ahead and set that boundary- You might have myths that get in the way.

Like I said, things you think that you deserve or don’t deserve. If I ask for this thing or if I set this boundary, nobody’s gonna respect it or nobody will understand. These are things that you could check the facts on maybe with other people at your workplace. Like, if you have people that you trust, you might ask them how to ask the situation.

Make sure it’s somebody who is good at weighing things and not just gonna take your side. Well, let, let me put it this way. A cheerleader has some role. But maybe if you’re gonna set a boundary, you want somebody with more balance that is able to take, like, multiple perspectives. We all need somebody in our corner, but we all need people to help us to, like, choose the better part.

And then sometimes the environment is more powerful than your skills. Sometimes the environment is not ready. And so, like, when you’re setting those boundaries, maybe sometimes you need to, like, wash, rinse, repeat with the radical acceptance skills, with tuning into wise mind.

Jennifer (host)

So when someone is realizing that, “Alright, I have to set some boundaries here,” what would be the first step that they could take then?

Dr. Kimberly Applewhite

The “Dime Game”, which I think we mentioned in, in one of these episodes, is a good tool that helps you evaluate a lot of things at one time. The official name of it is “Factors to Consider”, but I think if you Google dime game, it’ll, it’ll still come up, so look it up either way.

But basically, it’s a series of 10 questions that helps you to evaluate, like, how strong the ask should be, or sometimes I use it when I’m trying to figure out, like, should I say something? ‘Cause sometimes I doubt myself and I’m like, “Should I? Uh, I don’t know.” And, you know, I’ll be laying in my bed at night and being like, “Oh- This isn’t the right time.

And then I’ll wake up and be like, “No, it is the right time.” This has been going on for so long. Anyway, all of these are, like, different factors to consider. And so if you add them up, it gives you an idea of, like, whether you should say. So the, the questions are, like, can the person give you what you want?

Are … Is asking for what you want or saying no important to a long-term goal? And I should say, like, the saying no ones are kind of in reverse. So, like, if you’re trying to ask something, you want more yeses, and if you’re trying to say no, you want more nos. And so the ways the questions are worded helps you determine it.

So, like, if you’re trying to say no, for example, the question is, like, will saying no make you feel bad about yourself? If no, then, like, it increases your intensity. But for this I’ll just keep going on, like, should I ask question. Should I ask for this? So can they give you what you want is the first question.

Is your goal important in this situation? Or will asking help you feel more self-respect? Is the person required by law or moral code to give you what you want? Think about this, ladies- Mm … when you’re asking for your raise. Uh, uh, you know, do the men next to you make more than you, or are you being asked to do things?

Anyway, so are they required by law or moral code to do what you’re asking? Are you responsible for directing the person or telling them what to do? A lot of times in work situations it’s no, but sometimes it’s yes. And it’s okay to get a no in this, because you’re just trying to, you’re just trying to add them up.

Like, tell yourself the truth. Number six is, is what you want appropriate to the relationship that you currently have with the person? So sometimes you have not developed a relationship enough to set a boundary, and that’s really the, the number one time when things go wrong, when you kind of misjudge where you’re at.

So that’s the sixth question. Seven is will asking for what you want keep the peace now but create problems in the long run? So that’s another way of asking, like, would you be prioritizing a short-term goal instead of a long-term goal if you didn’t ask now? Or is asking important to a long-term goal?

The eighth one is, like, what have you done for the person? Are you giving just as much as what you’re asking for? Sometimes you’re giving more than what you ask for, and the answer is yes. But, like, sometimes, you know, you, you are asking for something and you know that you haven’t put in the work that you need to.

Somebody asked me for something the other day, and I was really wanting to be sympathetic, but then I was looking at the chat record of what this person had done, and I was like, “Well, I don’t know how I would be motivated to do this thing that you’re asking.” So you want to know when you’re, when you’re setting a boundary that, like- The give and take is at least even, if not more in favor on your side.

The ninth question is, do you know the facts you need to support your request? Are you clear about what you want? If you’re not, get clear. Some, you know, I was the kind of person who would, like, drown in the pool of my own emotions, and I- … was so focused on, like, how things made me feel that I would never get to what I wanted, and those are, like, the most frustrating conversations to have for everyone because if they’re not as sharp on their validation skills, they’re not gonna know what to do with your emotional content.

And so it’s important to know what you want. Sometimes when you’re setting a boundary and you’re trying to avoid your emotional content too, you may, like, land on, “This is the solution that I need,” but you may not have done adequate homework to know is that really the thing that you want or are there other things that can achieve what, what really you’re, you’re searching for?

And then the last question is, is it a good time to ask? So this is the one that I always leave wiggly, ’cause I’m like, you never know. But I don’t know, it’s not a good time to ask when somebody’s coming out of a busy meeting, or like if, if y- they’ve just done layoffs or, like, you just made them upset.

But like it might be a good time to ask if, like, the person’s in a mood for listening, paying attention, if you set up a meeting. Sometimes with setting a boundary though, the timing being right means that, like, you haven’t made too much of it. So some people can set a boundary just like saying the sky is blue.

I’m not gonna do this thing. Or this thing is, uh, above my, or below my pay, or I don’t know how you wanna say. Above or below your pay grade. It’s not in my job description, so I’m not gonna do it. Like, there are times where, like, if you, if you are effective enough at knowing the other steps, then you can say it matter-of-factly, as, as strongly as you want.

So anyway, when you add up the effect of these 10 questions and you look at the skill, it’ll give you an idea of the intensity with which to ask, and sometimes it’ll say like, “Don’t take no for an answer,” and sometimes it’ll be like, “Oh, just hint at this and see what happens.” 

Jennifer (host)

I really like that because it sounds like asking those questions isn’t so much about whether or not you should ask something or should set a boundary, but it’s more about in what way or in what intensity you should pursue what you want so that it’s most effective for your objectives. 

Dr. Kimberly Applewhite

Yeah. I like that take on it, Jen. Because yeah, if something’s important to you, it probably is worth acting on unless there’s no yeses, then it’s like, go use another skill. But if you get at least one, it’s worth figuring out some way to express it.

Jennifer (host)

It also makes me feel like I would be less likely to lie to myself on something like that. You know, when I’m like… “Okay, I’m gonna take action on this no matter what… and however this game plays out, I know it’s gonna be the most effective action I can take.” 

Dr. Kimberly Applewhite

Yeah, that is such a good point. I had somebody when I was teaching this skill, they said, “Well, you know, the dime game is kind of a logic-minded tool to figuring out emotions, so maybe some people would want to add more emotional weight if they know that they’re the type of person who, like, tends to be logical.”

And I’m like, “Yeah, do what works.” So it really does give you an opportunity to follow the script if you need to follow the script, but also think about doing what works and what’s gonna make you feel like you can be effective in the situation. And yeah, it begins with being honest about yourself and what you need, what works for you.

Jennifer (host)

That makes sense, especially since it sounds like if you’re not honest with yourself, then it’s not gonna work out in your favor. 

Dr. Kimberly Applewhite

You’ll get what somebody else wants, or, like you’ll get what you think you’re supposed to want and still find that, like, what you really want is still out there. 

Jennifer (host)

Well, thank you, Dr. Applewhite, for sharing these practical and insightful tools.

Dr. Kimberly Applewhite

Thank you, Jen. 

Jennifer (host)

And to our listeners, we hope that you found these tips useful for building healthier and more effective workplace relationships. I’ll see you next time.